Truth!! How many people will die or kill others in subways, streets, schools and grocery stores before the nation will recognize anosognosia and the repercussions of untreated SMI? It is time for dumping seriously ill humans out onto the streets to end.
Your writing and podcast have helped me so much to understanding more about what I can do as a mother to two children with SMI. Thank you so much for turning your pain into purpose.
I admire the bravery it takes to tackle this topic when it must take every ounce of energy you have to write the words that describe your life with your son. I hope your message is reaching the ears of people who need to hear it. xo
I'm wearing my combat boots in WI while my adult child is serving time in the country jail instead of a mental health facility where he most definitely belongs. Rigid requirements set up through the county crisis services prevent families from coordinating meaningful treatment options for individuals who cannot make those decisions for themselves because of their illness. One roadblock after another. Just ask us, we're there doing everything we can, and it's a heavy load.
Thank you for this! I am a mom in a very similar situation as you. Hawaii here. She is currently committed involuntarily under our MH6 law which can hold her for 90 days. This is one of a recent series of arrests and hospitalization which indicate extreme deterioration and that without long term treatment and care someone will die. The hospital will discharge her back home, where she is facing eviction and homelessness when she stabilizes. This time, she was brought to hospital by police for running into traffic on a busy highway without regard for safety and pushed a bystander down. I served as her guardian from 2008-2024 but had to petition the public guardian to take over after her behaviors put me at me at too great of risk to carry out my duties. I get ignored, blocked, gaslit by hospitals doctors and government agencies when trying to provide information and collaborate to help her. I’ve had to write to my governor, legislature, and anyone else I could think of in order to be heard. Parents have push, fight, every step of the way to get people to do their jobs and follow the law. We have in Hawaii a relatively new action called Petition for Assisted Community Treatment ACT. Which is underused, but I will file on Monday.
omg, so many parallels here, except for the 90-day stay. Right now best I can do is take it day by day. My son will go to a program for a bed at night, then refuse help so out on the street again. We have no AOT in CT. Working hard to change that too. Solidarity, sister!
Thank you. I do have a son is 44 on the street in California. I have Had no contact for a long time. I don’t know what else to do. Keep praying For the hurting.
we both agree that only an expert evaluation based on history and observation can determine whether he suffers from a serious mental illness. It’s inappropriate to suggest he is schizophrenic
Schizophrenia, just like drug addiction, is a debilitating mental illness. Schizophrenic patients, just like drug addicts, do not need help. They need someone to take over making life choices for them. We have, in the name of "human rights", allowed people that are unable to take care of themselves and make their own life choices, roam the streets in pain and suffering while we look and pat ourselves on the back on how virtuous, kind and helpful we are.
Luigi Mangione is not a schizophreniac. One of the hallmarks symptoms of schizophrenia is a large decline in cognitive ability. There is no way that a schizophrenic patient would be able to plan and execute the murder that Mangione has perpetrated. He is simply a psychopath, pure and simple.
Not true. When psychotic, high IQ people with schizophrenia can plan and execute such crimes. I speak from experience with a loved one. Disordered thinking may come and go, particularly when they are on medication, but still self-medicating with street drugs. Who are you to make a diagnosis with so little information? Irresponsible opinionating by you from my viewpoint.
Kate, I think you made a diagnosis with little information, by suggesting Mangione is schizophrenic. I was responding to your diagnosis. If anyone is irresponsible that's not me.
There are many disorders that lead to psychotic episodes. Schizophrenia is only one of them. The Hallmark of schizophrenia is not "disordered thinking", but a significant decline in cognitive ability. Its the symptoms that disappear, also called "negative symptoms" (lack of affect, cognitive decline etc.) that make it such a debilitating disease. While there are relatively effective medications to the more well known "positive symptoms" (hallucinations, disordered thinking etc) there is little medicine has to offer for the negative symptoms.
Diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia require 6 months of observation. Its extremely unlikely Manogione is schizophrenic.
SCZ is a spectrum of neurochemical disorders that manifest differing symptoms and disabilities depending on the individual. Drug use, like Ketamine in the case of a certain person with autism, can also strongly impact the severity and range of symptoms. It’s been a long time since I made my initial comment, but I still don’t think you have enough knowledge to know if Mangione has SCZ or has a diagnosis of psychopathy. You’re just mansplaining because you can.
Do you have a loved on suffering from schizophrenia? Some function on a very high level and are quite capable of carrying out elaborate plans driven by psychotic delusions, especially in the prodromal stage before diagnosis. The Unabomber and John Hinckley are well known examples of this.
Let's just say I've studied schizophrenia extensively.
It is a common defense tactic to get an expert to diagnose a murderer with schizophrenia and to argue they were not responsible for their own actions. It is quite obvious in the Kazinsky case that was just a defense tactic.
The prodromal stage has nothing to do with diagnosis. In this stage symptoms show up before the initial psychotic break.
Yes, of course schizophrenics can come up with elaborate plans. While they may be elaborate, they are not well thought out plans, and do not get to the level of thinking and execution shown by Manogione
Manogione made a host of errors and reportedly relied on a list describing how to commit the crime but no plan at all for after. His thinking and execution were not thorough. Only an expert evaluation, patient history and observation can determine whether SMI contributed to this crime.
Cognitive decline can occur with schizophrenia but the deficits are inconsistent and do not necessarily occur immediately. Many with SZ have amazing creativity and intelligence that becomes focused on whatever delusions capture them. Without a proper health evaluation and history from his family and friends there is no way to make an evaluation of Mangione.
Hi Randye, I know how frustrating it is. I really do, and after reading your, as always, excellent writing on this topic, I only wonder one thing. And, that is, why do we not have a way to get help for people who are posing a danger to themselves (or others) until they, at least, are deemed as no longer dangerous? Why is our society, if not our state, not capable of kind, gentle, but firm guidance to help individuals with mental illness that are acting in a way that may lead to them being in a dangerous situation.
It's all so tricky--I have said the same words Fredda many times. But here I sit awaiting Wednesday when the constable will arrive to evict my son out of the only apartment he has known for 13 years because his landlady could no longer tolerate my son asking for accomodations such as certain times when maintenance people came in, not knocking on his door in the morning out of the blue---real tough situation for her. ;) As she said, 'I'm tired'. But my point is--with anosognosia as a symptom it's difficult to help as we all know. And as I have wondered many times over the last 20 years---where would I take my son for help if he were open to it.....I'm a clinician myself and know the clinics, clinicians, programs--I'm hard pressed to figure out which would be able to handle the intricacies of my son's brain....Sending care and compassion to you and all of your readers. Thanks for continuing to be a voice that comforts.
I can totally relate to the same as my son was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. He is an adult and it’s so difficult with these HIPPA Laws to help our loved ones when they are not in a capacity to make these type of decisions for themselves. Our hands become so tied with patient privacy. It’s so frustrating and this needs to change as it’s breaking families apart!
Truth!! How many people will die or kill others in subways, streets, schools and grocery stores before the nation will recognize anosognosia and the repercussions of untreated SMI? It is time for dumping seriously ill humans out onto the streets to end.
Your writing and podcast have helped me so much to understanding more about what I can do as a mother to two children with SMI. Thank you so much for turning your pain into purpose.
Regina, thanks SO much for taking the time to comment. I means a lot to me. And I feel you :)
Randye
May I share this on my Facebook?
Yes! Thanks for asking
I admire the bravery it takes to tackle this topic when it must take every ounce of energy you have to write the words that describe your life with your son. I hope your message is reaching the ears of people who need to hear it. xo
I'm wearing my combat boots in WI while my adult child is serving time in the country jail instead of a mental health facility where he most definitely belongs. Rigid requirements set up through the county crisis services prevent families from coordinating meaningful treatment options for individuals who cannot make those decisions for themselves because of their illness. One roadblock after another. Just ask us, we're there doing everything we can, and it's a heavy load.
Amen!
Thank you for this! I am a mom in a very similar situation as you. Hawaii here. She is currently committed involuntarily under our MH6 law which can hold her for 90 days. This is one of a recent series of arrests and hospitalization which indicate extreme deterioration and that without long term treatment and care someone will die. The hospital will discharge her back home, where she is facing eviction and homelessness when she stabilizes. This time, she was brought to hospital by police for running into traffic on a busy highway without regard for safety and pushed a bystander down. I served as her guardian from 2008-2024 but had to petition the public guardian to take over after her behaviors put me at me at too great of risk to carry out my duties. I get ignored, blocked, gaslit by hospitals doctors and government agencies when trying to provide information and collaborate to help her. I’ve had to write to my governor, legislature, and anyone else I could think of in order to be heard. Parents have push, fight, every step of the way to get people to do their jobs and follow the law. We have in Hawaii a relatively new action called Petition for Assisted Community Treatment ACT. Which is underused, but I will file on Monday.
omg, so many parallels here, except for the 90-day stay. Right now best I can do is take it day by day. My son will go to a program for a bed at night, then refuse help so out on the street again. We have no AOT in CT. Working hard to change that too. Solidarity, sister!
Thank you. I do have a son is 44 on the street in California. I have Had no contact for a long time. I don’t know what else to do. Keep praying For the hurting.
“Help us help.”; that’s what I’ve been saying for over a decade! Thank you for putting into words what I’m far too exhausted to say.
Never enough empathy and connection for those with mentally ill or physically ill adult family members.
Beautifully said!!!!!
we both agree that only an expert evaluation based on history and observation can determine whether he suffers from a serious mental illness. It’s inappropriate to suggest he is schizophrenic
Schizophrenia, just like drug addiction, is a debilitating mental illness. Schizophrenic patients, just like drug addicts, do not need help. They need someone to take over making life choices for them. We have, in the name of "human rights", allowed people that are unable to take care of themselves and make their own life choices, roam the streets in pain and suffering while we look and pat ourselves on the back on how virtuous, kind and helpful we are.
Luigi Mangione is not a schizophreniac. One of the hallmarks symptoms of schizophrenia is a large decline in cognitive ability. There is no way that a schizophrenic patient would be able to plan and execute the murder that Mangione has perpetrated. He is simply a psychopath, pure and simple.
Not true. When psychotic, high IQ people with schizophrenia can plan and execute such crimes. I speak from experience with a loved one. Disordered thinking may come and go, particularly when they are on medication, but still self-medicating with street drugs. Who are you to make a diagnosis with so little information? Irresponsible opinionating by you from my viewpoint.
Kate, I think you made a diagnosis with little information, by suggesting Mangione is schizophrenic. I was responding to your diagnosis. If anyone is irresponsible that's not me.
There are many disorders that lead to psychotic episodes. Schizophrenia is only one of them. The Hallmark of schizophrenia is not "disordered thinking", but a significant decline in cognitive ability. Its the symptoms that disappear, also called "negative symptoms" (lack of affect, cognitive decline etc.) that make it such a debilitating disease. While there are relatively effective medications to the more well known "positive symptoms" (hallucinations, disordered thinking etc) there is little medicine has to offer for the negative symptoms.
Diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia require 6 months of observation. Its extremely unlikely Manogione is schizophrenic.
SCZ is a spectrum of neurochemical disorders that manifest differing symptoms and disabilities depending on the individual. Drug use, like Ketamine in the case of a certain person with autism, can also strongly impact the severity and range of symptoms. It’s been a long time since I made my initial comment, but I still don’t think you have enough knowledge to know if Mangione has SCZ or has a diagnosis of psychopathy. You’re just mansplaining because you can.
Do you have a loved on suffering from schizophrenia? Some function on a very high level and are quite capable of carrying out elaborate plans driven by psychotic delusions, especially in the prodromal stage before diagnosis. The Unabomber and John Hinckley are well known examples of this.
Let's just say I've studied schizophrenia extensively.
It is a common defense tactic to get an expert to diagnose a murderer with schizophrenia and to argue they were not responsible for their own actions. It is quite obvious in the Kazinsky case that was just a defense tactic.
The prodromal stage has nothing to do with diagnosis. In this stage symptoms show up before the initial psychotic break.
Yes, of course schizophrenics can come up with elaborate plans. While they may be elaborate, they are not well thought out plans, and do not get to the level of thinking and execution shown by Manogione
Manogione made a host of errors and reportedly relied on a list describing how to commit the crime but no plan at all for after. His thinking and execution were not thorough. Only an expert evaluation, patient history and observation can determine whether SMI contributed to this crime.
Cognitive decline can occur with schizophrenia but the deficits are inconsistent and do not necessarily occur immediately. Many with SZ have amazing creativity and intelligence that becomes focused on whatever delusions capture them. Without a proper health evaluation and history from his family and friends there is no way to make an evaluation of Mangione.
Hi Randye, I know how frustrating it is. I really do, and after reading your, as always, excellent writing on this topic, I only wonder one thing. And, that is, why do we not have a way to get help for people who are posing a danger to themselves (or others) until they, at least, are deemed as no longer dangerous? Why is our society, if not our state, not capable of kind, gentle, but firm guidance to help individuals with mental illness that are acting in a way that may lead to them being in a dangerous situation.
Hi Fredda, thanks for commenting.
Of course, I wonder exactly the same thing.
If a loved one were wandering the streets with Alzheimer's, no one says "oh just let them have their right to wander."
Hi Randye and Fredda,
It's all so tricky--I have said the same words Fredda many times. But here I sit awaiting Wednesday when the constable will arrive to evict my son out of the only apartment he has known for 13 years because his landlady could no longer tolerate my son asking for accomodations such as certain times when maintenance people came in, not knocking on his door in the morning out of the blue---real tough situation for her. ;) As she said, 'I'm tired'. But my point is--with anosognosia as a symptom it's difficult to help as we all know. And as I have wondered many times over the last 20 years---where would I take my son for help if he were open to it.....I'm a clinician myself and know the clinics, clinicians, programs--I'm hard pressed to figure out which would be able to handle the intricacies of my son's brain....Sending care and compassion to you and all of your readers. Thanks for continuing to be a voice that comforts.
I can totally relate to the same as my son was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. He is an adult and it’s so difficult with these HIPPA Laws to help our loved ones when they are not in a capacity to make these type of decisions for themselves. Our hands become so tied with patient privacy. It’s so frustrating and this needs to change as it’s breaking families apart!